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Tell me if I've got this right. Natasha knew Bucky back in the day, but somehow she has never once in her many slow-aging years seen a photo of Steve Rogers' friend that he's always going on about? Or, barring that, a photo of Bucky Barnes, sidekick to a national icon? Because if she had, the entire Winter Soldier reveal would have been cut off at the knees - at least the "Bucky's not dead" part, if not the actual Winter Soldier part. (Which I don't think she knew? I'd have to go back and look; he's operating as the Winter Soldier when they're together, per Captain America and Bucky #624, and I'd assume she knew / he told her, but I guess that's debatable. And I can't remember what Brubaker said about it.)

Relatedly, do we know what name Bucky went by back when they trained together? Someone says in Cap vol. 5 that he was called The American, but surely Natasha didn't call him that in bed. Woe, for Captain America and Bucky can't answer this for me; not once does anyone call flashback!Bucky by a name.

Also, I notice in Name of the Rose that Bucky has two flesh arms? Does he get the missing one restored at some point I haven't got to yet? I'm kinda bummed, honestly. And also confused, because the covers from his recently canceled series still show him with the metal arm.

Crossposted from Dreamwidth. Comment here or there. (comment count unavailable DW replies)

Comments

( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
sugar_fey
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:34 am (UTC)
Didn't the Red Room wipe Natasha's memories of Bucky or something like that? It's Brubaker, the answer to everything is "retcon then brainwashing as a device to cover up the plot holes because I'm too lazy to write a decent character arc."
snickfic
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:36 am (UTC)
I don't think so, because Brubaker specifically has her recognize and remember Bucky when he comes to steal Cap's shield from her. That's what so weird; Brubaker is the one who invents their past relationship in the first place, and uses it to jump-start the one in his own book.

Not that I will deny the rest of your comment. :P
sugar_fey
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:44 am (UTC)
Hm, I seem to remember something about brainwashing, but I'm not an expert on Captain America continuity. The best place to go for answers would be the Fuck Yeah Black Widow tumblr.

I understand why Brubaker retconned in the past relationship, it's tragic and romantic in the 'doomed love' sense (potentially creepy consent issues aside…), but he could easily have had a relationship develop between Bucky and Natasha in the present without retconning Natasha's history…

…but that would have required too much character development. *headdesk*

Why have a relationship develop organically when you can use a retcon to jump right to the sexytimes?
snickfic
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:47 am (UTC)
I guess I don't really see it as a doomed love thing; more a friends-with-benefits, ships-passing-in-the-night thing. That's what I like about it - in the past, anyway; in Captain America it's just sort of drippy.

he could easily have had a relationship develop between Bucky and Natasha in the present without retconning Natasha's history…

Heh, true.

That's a good idea about the Black Widow Tumblr. Perhaps I will try that.
sugar_fey
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:54 am (UTC)
I guess I don't really see it as a doomed love thing; more a friends-with-benefits, ships-passing-in-the-night thing. That's what I like about it - in the past, anyway; in Captain America it's just sort of drippy.

Yeah, that's why I didn't really get into it, although I get why people ship it. Although I was mainly put off by some nasty ship wars on tumblr, which, to be fair, the fault of individual shippers and not the fault of the ship itself. Bucky has some… very intense fans. :/

The Fuck Yeah Black Widow tumblr is a great place for detailed info about Natasha's backstory, but also general information and meta about female characters and female fans and creators in comics.
grasshopr_molly
Feb. 20th, 2014 02:47 am (UTC)
I know it's fanon that she calls him Yasha, which is the Russian nickname for Yakov/James.
snickfic
Feb. 20th, 2014 03:43 pm (UTC)
Oh, thanks! And I didn't realize you read Avengers/comics type stuff. :)
grasshopr_molly
Feb. 20th, 2014 09:57 pm (UTC)
Mostly MCU, and that mostly because I am so deeply in love with Johannsen's Natasha, but yeah.
traincat
Feb. 20th, 2014 06:16 am (UTC)
The upgraded roboarm has a holographic function, if I remember correctly, so don't worry, it's still there, just holographs are Marvel's answer to dealing with "wait but how does this character go out in public."
snickfic
Feb. 20th, 2014 03:43 pm (UTC)
AHA. All is clear.
claudiapriscus
Feb. 21st, 2014 02:11 am (UTC)
I just kind of hand waved it, since he was younger and wearing a garish mask and outfit and people can change a lot between the ages of 18ish and 25ish. And they certainly draw him that way. And then there's the fact that Steve's recollections of Bucky probably didn't exactly mesh well with a guy who is an amnesiac assassin. I haven't read any of the older Captain America titles, but I can turn my head and squint and imagine that it never really came up in a "hey look at this giant close up photo of my sidekick" way. So my handwave is pretty much coincidence and implicit bias. Natasha and Steve never ended up comparing notes; Natasha has had a busy and full life and probably didn't spend a lot of time thinking about old boyfriends way back when, and the stark contrast between what she'd likely hear about bucky and what she knew about the winter soldier meant that she'd have no reason to connect them, especially since Bucky's death was pretty...definite. Nothing like getting blown up over the ocean by an exploding plane 70 years ago to make you not question it. Even in a comic book universe.

Well, at least until Bucky did it. Then basically it was like WWII heroes for everybody. (I just read the 12, which I liked, but jeez, at this rate Steve's gonna have to start a veterans group just for alive again/stasis/magic/time traveled WWII heroes)
snickfic
Mar. 1st, 2014 07:05 pm (UTC)
You make excellent points. That is actually an excellent defense, and I'm totally willing to buy it. Thank you. :D
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )

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